Meet One of the World's Only Female Sword Swallowers

When I told people that I was interviewing one of the world's only female sword swallowers, the reaction I got was similar to the reaction I imagine most ophthalmologists get when they blow puffs of air into their patients' retinas: surprised, confused, and with eyes open just slightly wider than normal. Some people looked like I had just told them they have glaucoma. Again: surprised, confused, but also a bit nauseated.

The Lady Aye, whose real name is Ilise Carter, is an award-winning sideshow performer. She is a fire eater, escapist, and sword swallower who's not afraid to lie down on a bed of nails, tear herself free from a straitjacket, or swallow a 19-inch steel blade. While the sideshow industry may not be as male-dominated as it once was, there are still few female sword swallowers in the world. The Lady Aye has been involved in the sideshow business for a decade, though she didn't begin performing until her 30s, and training to be a sword swallower took something extra. Today, she talks candidly about the challenges unique to sword swallowing, including her own personal battle with bulimia and the sexual stigma that surrounds the act. We caught up with the Lady Aye over the phone to find out what it takes to be a sword swallower, how sexism persists within the industry, and how women can fight back from being pushed to the side in the sideshow biz.

Broadly: How did you first get interested in the sideshow business?
The Lady Aye: I got interested when I was a kid. I must've been like 11 or 12. The first place I ever saw fire eating was in the mid-80s. As a kid, my parents took me to see Penn & Teller off-Broadway, and there was fire eating. From that, I got interested in sideshow. It seemed really punk rock to me because it's so about being an outsider. It was so unusual. I was already interested in sort of goth stuff, weird things. If it was weird, if it was dark, I was interested in it.

What about sword swallowing in particular interested you?
Sword swallowing is sort of the ultimate sideshow skill. Almost everybody can learn everything else—people can pick up fire eating, and I've seen a lot of burlesque performers do the most basic job of picking up fire eating, and they're like, "I'm a fire eater now!" and there are one or two things that they go to: walking on glass or a bed of nails and stuff like that. Sword swallowing is just the next level of commitment. I always likened it to doing a split—either your body is set up for that, or it's not. I'll never be able to do a split, and no amount of training is going to change that.

Right.
And the same with sword swallowing; it's this weird relationship that's between your body and your brain, and there are some people who will train and train and train and still not get it because their bodies are just not set up for it.

What was more difficult for you, training your body or your brain?
They go together, but I'd have to say the brain because it took me about six months to start. I'm a recovering bulimic, and part of it was just the fear of triggering. I obviously have a very strong association with sticking anything down my throat. I was afraid that, well, what if I start and I re-trigger the purging, you know?

How long are the swords you typically swallow?
My favorite stage sword is 19 inches, but I can do stuff that's longer than that. I think I'm up to 22 or 23 depending on how thick it is.

When I said I was writing a story on sword swallowing to my editorial team, they were confused as far as if I was actually talking about sword swallowing versus if I was talking about deep-throating. Does this come up a lot?
The great thing about the way I perform, and about being a performer who talks, is that you are who you tell the audience you are. And I am very in charge of that room when I am on stage, and I don't conduct myself like, "Hee hee hee, isn't this silly?" giggly or anything like that. I'm there as a performer; I'm very in command. And you know, I'm not an unattractive person, but I'm also not there to be a sex object.

Right.
So I generally don't get treated that way. Which is not to say that I haven't been manhandled by audience members or been told the most obvious jokes. Actually, and I always say this, I get it more from women than from men.

Really?
Yeah, because when women feel a familiarity, they feel a kinship with other women. I know burlesque performers have that problem. [Women will] come up and grab you because they're like, "I'm a girl, you're a girl; it's no big deal." The times I've felt the most looked down upon or the most degraded was with other women because, I feel, they just feel freer saying it.

I wonder if sword swallowing is something that is eroticized equally for women and men.
The act is as you present it. I don't present it… I present it… I mean, it's a sword! It's a big stainless steel blade. You know, I got called up by a talent agent once to say, "Would you swallow a dildo?" and my first thought as a performer was, "That's not even clever!"

I hate to do anything cliché! I'm a performer, I'm a writer, and my first thought was, "I'm not doing that! That's stupid!" I want to be a smart performer, and that's not smart.

Why do you think sword swallowing is such a male-dominated field?
Because it's a corner of show business that has been male-dominated forever. Generally speaking, men have owned the shows for a long time, and sideshow is a very rough business in the way it was traditionally set up—moving town to town and doing dozens of shows a day, I mean, it is very physically taxing. As the late great, Melvin Burkhart, the original human blockhead, put it: "It's a hard way to make an easy living." So I think the thought was just that men were more set up for that.

Have you personally felt you've had any challenges in the business because of your gender?
Yes. This goes for every aspect of show business, but if you're female it's not enough to be good. You have to be hot, too. And there are days when I lie in bed and think, Oh God, if I were younger and thinner, people would love me more, and I would work more. There are places where I am just not welcomed because I am the age I am and the weight I am, and you can't go down that rabbit hole for too long, but it's a reality! It's a reality of show business, and it's a reality of business-business. As a society, we're very oriented towards new, thin looks. I try my best to be the best performer I can be, the best writer I can be… But I'm still a female in this world, and there's a reality to that. I'm not resentful about it. I'm not bitter about it, but it is what it is. But I'm not so naive about it that I don't see it, either.

Has your performance been therapeutic for you in any way?
The "Lady Aye" persona I created and the big joke of it is, she's confident, she thinks she's awesome, she thinks she's sexy, and she's totally in control of it. She's sort of fearless and also a lot more affectionate than I am. I never talk to strangers. I never say, "Honey, sweetie, darling," but I feel comfortable doing that as Lady Aye. And to me, I see this persona as having everything that I was missing, and I was able to step into that. It's porous, and you can't help but pick up some of that confidence.

That actually sounds incredibly empowering. I think a lot of people wish they could step into that alternate role.
I always go back to drag queens, because that was another thing I was always obsessed with, and I'm obsessed with Drag Race and all that. I think that a lot of what Ru Paul is trying to explain is that you can pretend to be that person you want to be and it goes back and forth; the stage persona often lifts up what is missing in your own sense of self. That transformation is incredibly powerful.

Has the art of sword swallowing or fire eating made you more in touch with your body?
Yeah, to some extent. That's a battle I'm going to fight every day. I'm never thinner or more gorgeous than I am that minute I step off the stage after a good show. I'm like, "Alright! I rule! Woo! I crushed it!" The next day I'm like, "Is that a freckle? Are these pants tight?" I'm a more peaceful, happier person than I was, but it's not a cure.

It's interesting, I actually just had somebody—we met and they wanted sword-swallowing lessons. And I don't teach, but I really felt I had to explain to her: It's not going to cure you. It's not going to make you feel any better. I know this sounds weird, but I often compare it to Dumbo's magic feather. You're handed this thing and they're like, "This will make everything perfect, and this will make everything alright," and if you believe that for awhile, it does help. But that's not actually what's helping you.

I've been in the burlesque world for years, and when I started out I thought it was this feminist utopia. Now these women are like, "Yeah, I'm getting my boobs done and I'm working out all the time, I'm on a diet…" And I was just like, this is supposed to make us feel better about our bodies, not worse. But I can see how being in that world or being on that stage can do that to you. I also want to follow that up with: Anybody can do whatever they want to their bodies, surgery-wise.

If you had any advice for people, and particularly young women, who wanted to get involved in the sideshow business, what would that be?
This is going to sound very counter-intuitive, but one of my favorite burlesque performers, former sideshow performer Bambi the Mermaid, said something to me to the effect of, "I never have to be pretty when I get on that stage." And, consequently, I think she's one of the hardest, funniest, fiercest performers out there because it's one thing to put on the trappings, to get dressed up, and to look great or look however you want look, but I really want to see women get on stage with no apologies for who they are. I want to see women be unabashedly funny and smart and not need any approval for that. That's what I've always gone for. In order to do that, you need to give up the preciousness of needing to be approved of and needing to be pretty. And I think that's a very big ask. If you want to get on stage, that's what I want women to focus on—just being the most powerful woman behind the mic or on the dance floor, whatever it is.